It was with great anticipation, and some unknowns, that we spoke with George Saunders, the author of many works, including the Booker Prize–winning Lincoln in the Bardo. This is a really great conversation that switches gears often. We talk about pizza and Italian delis on the South Side of Chicago, as well as lunch in the Texas oil fields. We talk about success in the kitchen and how intuition crashes together with luck. We talk about food in the year 2300. We talk about the near future and mustard collections in a short story from his new work, Liberation Day. We talk about perfectionism, Santa Cruz coffee, and time traveling to find out how dinner has been prepared over thousands of years. The great George Saunders is on the show. Enjoy it.

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More from George Saunders:

• Ghoul [The New Yorker]

• Story Club with George Saunders [Substack]

• Eat, Memory: The Absolutely No-Anything Diet [New York Times Magazine]

Buy: Liberation Day